Curse

Nechrond · Nov 18, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Wait... Is that THE immortal Mitch up there? From the war3 boards?

kedde · Nov 18, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

yeah dude euro guilds play with so much honor

You brought "honor" into this.
Noone mentioned it before.

If you really want to go that way, then you could say that running every single most powerful template for split builds with 4 defensive characters, splitting 90% defensively or for lord damage is extremely honorable right?

For the other argument It'd be important to point out how 3-4 american guilds keep facing the same opponents each american AT where they lose to each other and then farm some random low rank guilds as well.

I guess that makes for a strong top 10 guild.

Silent Treason · Nov 18, 2009, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Only against you, Less.

Fact of the matter is while Americans used to be the ones to mock these builds, the irony is, they run them the most.

[yumy] running spike and hexes in any match that matter.
[GeAr] running any kind of defensive spike they can get their hands on.
[YM] running only shitty pressure builds, trying to hold on to some idea that "pressure" in the old way still exists.

Don't get me wrong. When you're roster is subpar at best and when your backline needs carrying through layers of defense it makes sense to run whatever gives you the best chance. People aren't really playing for fun anymore, because if they were, I guarantee you they wouldn't run omega spike, hexes, or 6 split characters with heals. They just play2win, which is fine, but don't say those builds are fun to run.

The funny thing is, I never would have said this months ago but the truth is: Euro guilds are the only guilds that still run anything even resembling balanced (dual ranger/dom mes).

And do you even play for GeAr?

lutz · Nov 18, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Treason

Fact of the matter is while Americans used to be the ones to mock these builds, the irony is, they run them the most.

[yumy] running spike and hexes in any match that matter.
[GeAr] running any kind of defensive spike they can get their hands on.
[YM] running only shitty pressure builds, trying to hold on to some idea that "pressure" in the old way still exists.

Don't get me wrong. When you're roster is subpar at best and when your backline needs carrying through layers of defense it makes sense to run whatever gives you the best chance. People aren't really playing for fun anymore, because if they were, I guarantee you they wouldn't run omega spike, hexes, or 6 split characters with heals. They just play2win, which is fine, but don't say those builds are fun to run.

The funny thing is, I never would have said this months ago but the truth is: Euro guilds are the only guilds that still run anything even resembling balanced (dual ranger/dom mes).

And do you even play for GeAr?

[yumy] runs split, spike and hexes.
[GeAr] runs split, spike and hexes. We also ran euro balance the other day. Ask Lemming.
I don't know/care what [YM] runs.

Less, I know you're trying to troll me. I know you aren't that stupid.

Silent Treason · Nov 18, 2009, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

[yumy] runs split, spike and hexes.
[GeAr] runs split, spike and hexes.

Right, and when GeAr and yumy verse each other with "split" builds on frozen, what happens? Though asking you doesn't make much sense.

On any map, in any setting, where they care about the end result, both those guilds will run A) spike or B) hexes. That is the point.

What you said is that those builds are fun, which they are not, and it isn't even relative to the person. You can ask anyone in either of those guilds and I am willing to bet they will tell you that they do not enjoy spiking or hex bombing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Treason

People aren't really playing for fun anymore, because if they were, I guarantee you they wouldn't run omega spike, hexes, or 6 split characters with heals.

-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

[yumy] runs split, spike and hexes.

-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

[GeAr] runs split, spike and hexes.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 18, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Every American AT?

Aren't you riding the GeAr bench?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Wait... Is that THE immortal Mitch up there? From the war3 boards?

The very same.

It scares me a little but I find myself agreeing with Less here.

DreamWind · Nov 18, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Treason

On any map, in any setting, where they care about the end result, both those guilds will run A) spike or B) hexes. That is the point.

What you said is that those builds are fun, which they are not, and it isn't even relative to the person. You can ask anyone in either of those guilds and I am willing to bet they will tell you that they do not enjoy spiking or hex bombing.

So basically the entire game/meta is bad/boring. It just took us a few extra posts to solidly state it.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 18, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So basically the entire game/meta is bad/boring. It just took us a few extra posts to solidly state it.

You also forgot the population is dead, which just compounds those issues even more.

gooeydark · Nov 20, 2009, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Treason

What you said is that those builds are fun, which they are not, and it isn't even relative to the person. You can ask anyone in either of those guilds and I am willing to bet they will tell you that they do not enjoy spiking or hex bombing.

Confirm, although I don't see why GeAr doesn't enjoy spiking.

scruffy · Nov 20, 2009, 04:43 AM // 04:43

gear's spike build is pretty much the most standard closest to balanced build you're going to get atm

from my perspective as a warrior spiking is the most fun because

a) splitting involves too much time wasting between top guilds, every player in the match knows the algorithms inside and out

b) physical/condition/energy denial pressure are the only fun pressure builds and none of them have been viable in years

c) There is a chance to get instant gratification for your successes, and pressuring a team out through consistant high quality spikes is just what the doctor ordered for the e-penis, invokes a feeling of being unstoppable.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 20, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

c) There is a chance to get instant gratification for your successes, and pressuring a team out through consistant high quality spikes is just what the doctor ordered for the e-penis, invokes a feeling of being unstoppable.

How about pressuring a team out without constant omegaspikes?

scruffy · Nov 20, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

How about pressuring a team out without constant omegaspikes?

pressure? you mean those builds where your ranger uses his interupts to spread poison and kill recup while the other team kills themselves to VoR/Backfire/empathy?

flag tactics can be fun, but the actual combat is pretty boring (look at me guys I'm so good at switching which monk I'm hitting, it takes true talent to hit tab space once every few seconds)

kedde · Nov 20, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I don't think you ever played any of the pressure builds years ago where the nonsense you're spewing would make you look laughable.

At the very least, any sort of pressure build not associated with Lacerate like hex overload takes more coordination and executional level skill than following the called target and a countdown.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 20, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

pressure? you mean those builds where your ranger uses his interupts to spread poison and kill recup while the other team kills themselves to VoR/Backfire/empathy?

I mean those builds that people used to play when playing GvG was still something you did because you enjoyed it.

Assyrian · Nov 23, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

GG Anet...

/report Anet Leeching

obsidian ectoplasm · Nov 23, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

It's not about what build you run, its about how you play it

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 23, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Whatever way you'll play whatever build that's viable atm will either be boring or ineffective and in some cases both.

Nechrond · Nov 24, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Speaking as a perpetual semi-noob in games across all genres, I don't get why focus-firing is considered basic strategy in RTS games, but is called "spiking" and considered lame in GW. It just makes sense to do it.

Revelations · Nov 24, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Speaking as a perpetual semi-noob in games across all genres, I don't get why focus-firing is considered basic strategy in RTS games, but is called "spiking" and considered lame in GW. It just makes sense to do it.

And in RTS games there are also situations where you want to spread damage as much as possible, usually against squishier targets. The difference is that in GW there are no squishy targets anymore.

Spiking in general isn't lame. The entire meta focused around builds that have an assload of defense and just 321 each other every 7 seconds is lame. Boring would be a better word for it though.

Also, comparing an RTS to an action-RPG is rather retarded.

Nechrond · Nov 24, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

And in RTS games there are also situations where you want to spread damage as much as possible, usually against squishier targets.

Actually, you spread out your damage if targets aren't squishy enough to just pick off one by one. You invest in some AoE, bringing multiple targets at once down, your opponent will have to choose which ones to save first, then you nuke one of the other ones to death.

Quote:

The difference is that in GW there are no squishy targets anymore.

That's not really true. The point that there's not enough difference in "squishiness" is valid though.

Quote:

Spiking in general isn't lame. The entire meta focused around builds that have an assload of defense and just 321 each other every 7 seconds is lame. Boring would be a better word for it though.

That I can agree with. Needz m0ar powerful but high-cooldown anti-spike skills.

Quote:

Also, comparing an RTS to an action-RPG is rather retarded.

No it isn't. Both involve two squads with similar but not identical resources attempting to defeat the other, trying to gain an edge either by clever use of terrain or by optimal use of the subtle differences in resources. Really, the only difference is the mode of control.